VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS

Welcome to the most recent episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Right this moment, we’re thrilled to have Johannes Scholl on the present, who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS, an revolutionary digital actuality train system that mixes immersive gaming experiences with bodily health. Johannes and his crew have been pushing the boundaries of VR health, introducing a novel method to figuring out that has captured the eye of health fans and tech lovers alike. We will’t anticipate Johannes to share his insights and the story behind ICAROS with you.

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Episode 11 – ICAROS

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the way in which the world will play sports activities, work out and get match. Along with your hosts, preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR health club and produce many years of expertise from creating a number of the largest health know-how corporations on the planet. They’re bringing collectively the most effective and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. Right this moment now we have Johannes Scholl on the present who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS. With a mission to empower people to realize their well being and health objectives via the usage of innovative know-how and immersive gaming experiences. Johannes, thanks a lot for being right here with us.

Johannes Scholl: Thanks for having me, and I stay up for this dialog with you guys.

Preston Lewis: So to kick it off, we wanna know what bought you into VR and health within the first place? Form of how did your [00:01:00] private pursuits lead you right here?

Johannes Scholl: In order you’ll be able to think about, it’s fairly of an extended story, however I’ll attempt to make an extended story quick. I studied industrial design. So did my co-founder. And after I was nonetheless at college, I all the time knew that when I might begin engaged on my grasp’s thesis, it must be one thing round health. And that was additionally across the time after I met my co-founder Michael, who was already working a design company down in Munich.

And I used to be working with him and I’ve instructed him about my concept and I stated, “hey, you understand what? I need to do one thing revolutionary. I need to do one thing particular round health.” And he stated, “that’s cool, I wish to help you right here, however let’s not convey the bench press 2.0 or one thing. Let’s convey one thing actually revolutionary, that the health trade hasn’t seen earlier than.” He’s into health, we’re each into industrial design, and we stated, “okay, what’s essentially the most motivating health expertise that we may consider?”

And we stated, ” how wouldn’t it be if we may create the feeling of flying [00:02:00] while doing all of your exercise?” As a result of we figured that having the ability to fly is a mankind’s dream, irrespective of the place on the planet. Like, all people has dreamt of this as soon as, proper? So we got here up with this primary idea and the enjoyable factor actually is that this all passed off earlier than digital actuality was a factor. It was earlier than Oculus. It was earlier than Oculus first Kickstarter marketing campaign. Nonetheless we had the concept that if this could work, it may solely work with digital actuality, proper? So ultimately, what we created again then was the longer term idea of what we thought how health train may look in twenty 5 years from now.

Little did we all know that only a couple months later, digital actuality did turned a factor, and t hat’s the place all the story began actually.

Ryan DeLuca: So many individuals once they first consider like, “oh, what may you do with, like, you understand, gaming and health?” And the very first thing is, like, actually, actually primary stuff. Like, “oh, you can be having a private coach, or you can do that stuff you used to do in a standard health club, however now in a recreation or in VR.” Which simply feels just like the least [00:03:00] artistic technique to do it. Like, that is this entire new technique to do issues. Why would you wanna do bench press 2.0? Like, no person needs to bench press. You recognize? Even folks that say they like bench urgent, they most likely don’t actually adore it that a lot in comparison with different issues. Why would you wanna do this versus, like, thrilling recreation and flying in VR?

Johannes Scholl: The factor was we needed to create a complete expertise and I believe that sounds acquainted to you. And once we began, we had this whole freedom of concepts, you understand? We have been considering so freely, as a result of there was no strain on us. We didn’t consider it as a enterprise within the very first place. As a result of as I stated, we have been considering like that is going to occur in twenty years from now. The enjoyable factor actually is when the primary headsets got here out, particularly the commercially out there headsets. For instance, the Samsung Gear VR. For those who bear in mind? The place you probably did put your smartphone in, and then you definately would have it as a VR display. Samsung was considered one of our very first prospects. They purchased a few ICAROS items to set them up of their pop-up shops that they have been opening all throughout Europe to demo their new know-how.

I suppose one of many first [00:04:00] peripherals for digital actuality that you can get. In order that they outfitted all the pop-up shops with our machines to demo their very own know-how. And that was nice. And that’s additionally why I preach that timing is such an essential issue while you launch a brand new product, launch a brand new concept. And we stood on the station earlier than the hype practice arrived and we simply needed to leap onto it, and that basically helped us very a lot to get going.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. And also you kinda alluded to it, the flying, proper? However inform us about your product. What precisely is ICAROS? What’s the expertise like? What makes it particular and why’d you resolve to create it this fashion?

Johannes Scholl: It turned a bit more durable to elucidate within the final couple of years, due to course our portfolio has grown and we now have a variety of merchandise. I suppose the one the place all the pieces began with, and nonetheless the expertise that we’re most well-known for, is the mix of a core exercise and a digital actuality flying expertise.

So let me begin with that. And principally, it’s a rig that you’d enter in a plank-like place. However you [00:05:00] wouldn’t simply lay on there, however you’ll be capable of transfer round, actually, and by shifting your physique weight forwards and backwards and to the left and proper, you’ll be able to maneuver that factor. And we’re detecting your motions on the gadget with movement sensors. And ultimately, we’re transferring your motions on the gadget into digital actuality gameplay.

So it could change into, say a Superman simulator, no matter you might be doing bodily on the gadget you’re doing in digital actuality. And it offers you a fairly intense core exercise, fairly intense shoulder exercise. Nevertheless it is not going to solely enhance, like, your muscle power, however it should additionally enhance your sense for steadiness. Your coordination, your response, performance of your core. So actually, it’s about say, mind-muscle connection. That’s why it’s additionally utilized in remedy and stuff like that. Possibly we converse extra about that later. So you might be in that planking place sporting your headset, along with your motions on the gadget. You’re controlling the gameplay. Most of it’s about flying, however it doesn’t essentially must be flying; there’s additionally [00:06:00] underwater experiences, stuff like that.

I believe for me essentially the most spectacular ones, one is our digital actuality multiplayer. It’s referred to as ICARACE. So that could be a futuristic racing recreation the place you’d fly a spaceship and you’d race different pilots, as we name them, from perhaps even different international locations, different components on the planet, stay in digital actuality. And that could be a very intense expertise. And people races, they final for ten minutes, proper about, and it’s a tricky one. Yearly now we have world championships the place we invite the most effective pilots which have certified within the on-line pre-season, after which we put them on stage, allow them to race one another.

After which one other one, which I consider could be very spectacular. We began engaged on these sort of experiences two years in the past, proper about. We’ve a cooperation with one other firm right here from Munich, they’re referred to as Actuality Maps. They offered us with panorama knowledge that they create utilizing photogrammetry. And for instance, now we have now digitalized a few of [00:07:00] essentially the most iconic sceneries within the Alps. Like now we have the Dolomites, or now we have components of the Swiss Alps or the German Alps. And you may actually undergo these sort of landscapes. We’ve a Wingsuit simulator in there, racetracks, all this enjoyable stuff.

And you may expertise this in actual locations. Identical to Google Earth, however on a better high quality stage. There’s much more, however that’s sort of what’s happening in digital actuality if you end up one of many ICAROS units.

Ryan DeLuca: Properly, we talked about the place your product is at present, and naturally, persevering with to work and make it even higher, however it’s such an thrilling factor. Clearly you didn’t begin there, while you first began with the primary model to at present. What kind of learnings did you’ve gotten from the start, that for those who may return to your self again in these days, you’d inform your self?

Johannes Scholl: Many, many various ones. However, let me strive with a number of the most essential ones for me.

So first, as I stated, my co-founder and I we’re each industrial designers. We’re each artistic minds, which is an effective factor and likewise a nasty factor. What I all the time strive is, I attempt to visualize concepts very early, after which we additionally attempt to [00:08:00] prototype concepts as quickly as doable to have the ability to check them. And so, stroll the stroll, proper? No matter you visualize would possibly flip right into a actuality at one level, it could not, but when you don’t visualize it, if you don’t construct, it is not going to occur in any respect. In order that’s for certain.

After we began off first, and I believe that was additionally with many different gamers within the discipline of digital actuality, particularly. No one actually knew the place it could be going, the place it was heading. From our DNA, we knew that we needed to mix health and gaming.

With the primary video games we constructed, we didn’t have any expertise. We didn’t have any person suggestions. So I imply, it’s essential to know who’s the person, who’s the client? Who’s the person. Generally that’s the similar particular person. Generally it’s not the identical particular person, and you’ll have a buyer and you’ll have an finish person.

What do they anticipate from you? It’s that small line between getting person suggestions, implementing person suggestions, and listening to the customers. And typically additionally to not take heed to them and do your personal factor, as a result of perhaps you understand [00:09:00] higher and you understand what’s forward, you understand, you’re one step forward of them.

So I believe that’s a effective line between implementing person suggestions and, on the similar time, be true to your self, as a result of who got here up with that idea? You probably did. So consider in your self as properly. Nevertheless, it actually comes right down to what I consider product market match. That’s for certain. You’ll be able to have the fanciest concepts, if the product is not going to work within the designated atmosphere, you’ll not have a enterprise. Proper? I believe that was one thing, particularly within the first two, three years or so, the place we additionally needed to be taught rather a lot. Like, who’s the client? Who’re we constructing it for? In what method is it going for use? The place will it’s most helpful? The place will it actually make a distinction?

How can we resolve the issues that our buyer has and stuff like that. That is quite common, however nonetheless it’s one thing that you must be taught originally. And the opposite factor, I believe that you understand very properly, since you did do that very properly while you began, and I additionally suppose that we didn’t do the worst job right here, was being loud. And being [00:10:00] acknowledged and being, like, far and wide. And that’s one thing the place I believe we additionally did a superb job. So while you begin one thing new, you must be, you must be loud, proper? Go for the awards, go for the commerce reveals, go for the media, go for the bloggers, go for social media, go for… take no matter you’ll be able to take to make it possible for individuals will take discover.

I bear in mind once we first went to CES, we have been down within the Sands Expo at Eureka Park. And again then it was, you had these ten by ten cubicles. Tremendous small, like startup zoo, sort of, tremendous vibrant environment, very crowded. And we introduced the ICAROS gadget, the primary professional gadget for the very first time. And the sales space was packed, and we had press, and media, and many stuff was happening. For us, it was a terrific expertise. The primary present within the US, and all of this buzz happening. And we took rather a lot out of it.

Nevertheless, one 12 months later we went to the identical place, Eureka Park, similar ten by ten cubicles. And the one distinction was that this time we had [00:11:00] a correct video on YouTube and on social media, like Fb, again then it was. And it modified all the pieces. This time we had, inside one week, we had greater than thirty million views on our video. And it bought viral and it was Mashable, and Bored Panda, and USA Right this moment, and also you identify it. It was the identical product, was the identical present, similar individuals. The one distinction was that our preparations have been rather a lot higher this time. Then additionally you bought luck and timing and stuff like that. That’s additionally studying. It’s a must to be loud, you must be current, however you additionally should be ready to make one thing out of it. However in the end, this story additionally has a draw back, as a result of that was, I consider, 2017? And I imply, what does CES stand for? It stands for Client Digital Present.

Electronics, sure. Present, sure. Client, no. We solely had this massive ICAROS promo that you’d purchase for 9 thousand again then. So, we acquired, I don’t know, seven, eight thousand emails, and we [00:12:00] have been three individuals. And we have been doing night time shifts simply to reply these emails. And you may think about that ninety p.c of these requests have been, like, “okay, can I get this for my front room?”

And we’re like, “properly, sure you’ll be able to, however it’s ten grand.” So, it actually helped us to drive substantial enterprise again then. Nonetheless these days with all, now we have the patron vary in line, and the net store and all the pieces. So for those who would have the identical thirty million video views and 7 thousand emails, we may make much more out of it. However that’s sort of the tales you’ll be able to inform later.

Preston Lewis: For higher or for worse, as pioneers, we’re paying the innovation tax, proper?

Somebody’s gotta do it, gotta go on the market and blaze the path. And so we’re actually appreciative to others that do this. You guys included, as a result of once we began Black Field in 2016, we might say the time period “VR health”, and their eyes would glaze over and so they’d be tremendous confused. They didn’t perceive. And so simply because ICAROS, and doubtless Virtuix and a number of these individuals have been within the recreation so lengthy with these viral movies, and [00:13:00] taking the dangers. It’s clearly been costly initially, however it’s pushed all the trade ahead.

So, undoubtedly cool that you simply guys did that.

Johannes Scholl: I briefly talked about earlier, I believe that was earlier than the digital camera was rolling. We simply bought again from FIBO in Cologne a pair weeks in the past. I imply, that’s one of many greatest health and physique constructing reveals on the planet. This 12 months they’d a chosen space for XR gaming, digital actuality, eSports health. 5 years in the past, unthinkable. Unthinkable. And now you’ll be able to see that. I believe that’s very cool. It’s nice that the organizers acknowledge the potential and likewise that they do one thing out of it. And now you’ll be able to actually really feel the help of the trade and likewise the acceptance on the opposite aspect, which is simply as essential. You can not solely simply push know-how after which anticipate it. That’s not the way it works. So that you want the acceptance too. We all know that there’s potential in utilizing digital actuality or gamification typically in health. The exercises are extra fascinating, you can also make them more practical.

You’ll be able to actually make them addictive, like an eSports expertise. In a great way.

Preston Lewis: [00:14:00] You simply made me suppose that, you can virtually have, a triathlon-style occasion. Kinda like you’ve gotten with biking, swimming, working, the place it may very well be, Black Field exercise, ICAROS flying, a Virtuix working expertise. The place you can really do that, triathlon, multi-event kind of an expertise. However with this futuristic know-how.

Johannes Scholl: I completely see this and we should always discuss this, as a result of I do know that many individuals on the market would love being part of this. I believe that’s additionally a imaginative and prescient, like having these XR Olympics factor, sort of, happening.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s far more thrilling. There’s so many issues you are able to do in these loopy fantasy worlds you couldn’t do in a real-life triathlon. And extra accessible and may follow from residence. Like, there’s so many cool components that, I imply, that’s for certain coming. The superb factor is individuals say, “oh, VR, like, I don’t need that. It’s this dystopian concept and I’m all on my own in my headset.” The place it’s, like, the precise reverse is true. Like, you’ll be able to have essentially the most social expertise with different individuals. And even simply, like, the Zwift-style stuff, it’s like social health and be capable of be there with different individuals. And the enjoyable, aggressive and cooperative. And eSports as we’ve seen, like, it may very well be essentially the most social factor, which [00:15:00] the social a part of it’s actually what drives how a lot you care about it and the that means behind the actions.

So that you talked about, you bought suggestions at a number of the commerce reveals and clearly from the press. What suggestions have you ever acquired from folks that have used your product, and, you understand, any attention-grabbing tales or something that’s stunning that got here out of that?

Johannes Scholl: We’ve all the time been working not solely within the health trade, but additionally within the medical well being rehabilitation and remedy world. And now we have strengthened that work. And simply within the final couple of months now we have put in the primary ICAROS well being items, that’s our flagship mannequin, in hospitals, for instance. And in German rehabilitation hospitals. And it’s simply nice to get suggestions from sufferers utilizing our units, as a result of for them digital actuality typically, and I believe our units specifically, can actually be a recreation changer. You probably have an individual that will increase their strolling pace considerably after a stroke, via utilizing ICAROS units, discount of spasms, improve of complete physique composition, general happiness of their life and having a [00:16:00] joyful rehabilitation expertise. As a result of for those who’re going to rehab, this is usually a very irritating expertise for you, perhaps typically with little progress, lack of motivation, ache and all the pieces that’s associated to it.

And I imply, for those who ask me for the best tales to inform, I’ll inform you affected person tales. Particular person success tales of sufferers. Whether or not it’s orthopedic, decrease again ache or if it’s neurologic sufferers. That’s one thing very rewarding to see.

After which final however not least, within the final years and now once more after Covid, now we have put in a few of our items in a number of the coolest locations on Earth. Like the highest notch medical retreats, the excessive finish 5 star lodges. Like, the locations the place the wealthy and the well-known go. You see the skilled athletes and the celebrities figuring out with it. For those who look again a few years and also you stated, “you turned this into actuality”, that’s a terrific story.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. I imply, once we began Black Field VR, a number of it was primarily based on the truth that most individuals give up their health packages, proper? The adherence [00:17:00] to a health program is simply dismal throughout the board. As a result of why? It’s boring, it’s not very partaking, a number of occasions it’s not very social, it hurts. You recognize, perhaps you don’t have entry to a health club or no matter. And so, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s the identical factor with rehabilitation, proper? Individuals go in, they get a surgical procedure, and we hear it on a regular basis from a number of the hospitals we talked to within the early days, however they principally stated, you understand, “at the least fifty p.c of individuals will drop out.” For those who’re not adhering to a health program, it’s simply dangerous to your normal well being, proper? It’s simply you’re not gonna be as match, you’re not gonna get the cognitive advantages and all these different superb issues that include figuring out repeatedly.

However in rehabilitation, it’s even worse, proper? As a result of for those who get a surgical procedure and for those who don’t adhere to a program, you’ll be able to now not bend your knee, perhaps. You’ll be able to now not prolong your arm, proper? In order that’s, I believe the cool factor about this know-how throughout the board, whether or not it’s from health or rehab, such as you’re speaking about. Is that gamification and these recreation mechanics paired with these immersive applied sciences have the flexibility to drastically [00:18:00] improve that adherence stage via the enjoyable, and the epicness and engagement. And as you each have talked about, having the potential to be far more social as properly, so.

Johannes Scholl: The social facet. We’re in a position to customise the expertise and to individualize the exercise and create a custom-made rehabilitation journey. We’ve simply launched the software program that is named ICAROS N.E.X.T., Neuro Expertise Coaching, the place you as a affected person would enter the gadget for the primary time and you’ll get your first, like, preset check to seek out out what’s your present health stage. And from that time on, you’ll have custom-made particular person race tracks that may be designed only for you primarily based in your private skillset. After which the higher you change into, the tougher, the tougher it should get. So it should continuously push you to the sting of your consolation zone. After which over time we are going to see your progress, your particular person progress, that you could additionally evaluate to others.

However ultimately, it’s your journey and you may be happy with your self and your progress. And the software program, it should all the time be as match as you might be and [00:19:00] it should all the time convey you to your most and attempt to get the most effective out of you. And, I imply, there’s much more of potential in gamification typically, too. It’s not simply that it’s extra enjoyable. For those who construct a superb recreation that’s given, however then what else are you able to do with it? Like actually driving the effectiveness of every session. That’s one thing we’re wanting into rather a lot proper now. And it’s additionally for the longer term software program growth, like particular person exercises, plans, rehabilitation journeys. That’s one thing we’re undoubtedly wanting into rather a lot.

Ryan DeLuca: Nobody ever says they’re excited to go to rehab. You recognize? Isn’t that the Amy Winehouse track? It’s like, “they tried to make me go to rehab, however I stated, no, no, no.”

However yeah. However no person’s ever like, “what do you’ve gotten happening at present?” It’s like, “I’m gonna rehab, I’m so excited. It’s rehab day.” You recognize? I imply, what we take into consideration rather a lot is so many issues in life that you simply need to do, that you need to do, proper?

Since you ought to do it. It’s best to learn these books. It’s best to exercise, clearly, you need to eat, you understand, the best meals. It’s a must to, like, power your self to do it. Or do some sort of, like, incentive to make it so that you do it. Like, your physician’s gonna yell at you for those who [00:20:00] don’t do the rehab.

However, you understand, you go to regular rehab and clearly, like we talked about the identical as like a exercise, like, it’s not enjoyable. It’s time consuming. It’s painful. You don’t see speedy outcomes, you understand? You don’t instantly go in there and see one thing. The place with video games you’ll be able to see speedy outcomes. Like, you simply hit a brand new document on this or attain this new stage, and also you’re getting the rewards, and pleasure and there’s simply so many issues you can do.

What we actually suppose is, it’s much less about to get individuals simply do what they know they need to do and take a look at to determine learn how to power that. However how can we make the factor you need to do one thing you need to do.

Possibly we’ll swap gears just a bit bit, be taught a little bit bit extra in regards to the enterprise aspect of ICAROS. You recognize, what’s the general enterprise mannequin? I do know you’ve gotten completely different fashions going into B2B. You clearly have the house variations of what you’ve gotten, however inform us a little bit bit extra in regards to the enterprise mannequin and the way you’re working to make that profitable.

Johannes Scholl: Proper. So, typically, you can resolve between these two branches. We bought the patron department and the opposite one is the business. Simply traditionally we began ICAROS with business product, I discussed earlier. Like 10k for the {hardware}, after which we might go into these high [00:21:00] locations, and a few of that is nonetheless the case.

Nevertheless, particularly after this occasion on CES, we seen okay, there’s some sturdy demand from shoppers on the market. So, we should always have one thing for them at hand as properly. Till the Covid pandemic actually hit, we have been on the trail to work on the business health and medical and people top-notch lodge. So it was all business prospects, who all shut down via the pandemic. After which, we needed to, sort of, invent a second enterprise mannequin. And that invention was the ICAROS HOME with the ICAROS CLOUD. And likewise we stepped again from solely making digital actuality content material to additionally having a cell app that may run on the person’s pill or smartphone.

And that may work with some quite simple units like our ICAROS CLOUD, which is an inflatable full physique exercise gadget. That within the first place doesn’t work with digital actuality. So these days, I believe now we have much more customers on our cell app than now we have in digital actuality. Nonetheless, now we have a bit [00:22:00] completely different enterprise fashions right here.

So if we might speak to business prospects these days, a lot of the income we might generate with this sort of buyer is thru the {hardware} and software program lifetime license. So, for instance, if we might speak to a remedy middle in Germany and we might arrange a tool for say twenty 5 thousand euros, for them, it’s actually essential to, like, have this one time cost after which have all the system arrange after which go from there. The extra we glance into health and shoppers, the extra we glance into recurring income via software program subscriptions. Particularly our ICAROS app, it’s a month-to-month subscription. It’s nineteen {dollars} monthly. And you may select month-to-month, you’ll be able to activate or deactivate. So I believe it is vitally truthful contract that we’re providing right here and it’s continuously rising, that could be a wonderful thing about it. On-line subscriptions, they’re changing into increasingly essential for our complete enterprise mannequin.

As a client, you’d purchase an ICAROS HOME or ICAROS CLOUD, you’d get the unit and then you definately would look into the [00:23:00] subscriptions. However typically content material is king, and it’s extra, and increasingly in regards to the content material. After I converse of growth these days, my co-founder, who’s main our growth crew, it’s software program growth actually. And it’s additionally enjoyable to see, since you’re getting that suggestions so immediately.

You launch a brand new recreation, you will note the acceptance price. You will notice how lengthy can be performed. Are individuals keen to pay for it? Will they invite others? Will they battle one another on the leaderboard? Stuff like that. I, in fact, love the net method, as a result of it’s like getting in shut contact with the tip person. So, these are the 2 enterprise fashions for us.

Final however not least, via Covid additionally, we actually began with organising an internet retailer and promoting on to shoppers. So we actually kicked off D2C enterprise, that we didn’t have three years in the past. The world has opened up once more, not solely in Europe and the US, but additionally Asia now. New initiatives are being began, health requirements, lodges. So it’s nice to be again on the map for them. But additionally, we construct up this complete client [00:24:00] universe and it’s nice to have this now, as a result of we are able to simply hold doing that with out letting go of the enterprise prospects. In order that’s sort of what we’re proper now.

Preston Lewis: As you’re saying that, it’s actually attention-grabbing to suppose again, as a result of hindsight’s twenty-twenty and, fortunately issues have, sort of, labored out in the way in which we might hope with, so far as VR health within the trade, proper? As a result of I imply, it may have taken a very completely different flip. Meta won’t have invested in it. HTC won’t have stored going with their units and stuff, however it’s, sort of, turned out for us.

However what it makes me take into consideration is, you’ve gotten a cell app, which you talked about has extra individuals utilizing it proper now. Whereas VR, it’s nonetheless early. It’s attention-grabbing, as a result of to me it sort of feels like once we have been at Bodybuilding.com, it was the identical dialogue between cell and net. Proper? If you’re constructing software program merchandise. It was, like, we had like ninety p.c of the order… properly, I imply, clearly one hundred percent have been, like, desktop. After which there was this second, Ryan and I bear in mind, the place it was, like, “wow, cell is gonna take over all of this, we should always most likely get forward of these items.”

And so it’s simply actually attention-grabbing that we’re nonetheless in that second in [00:25:00] time. I believe it’s essential for our listeners, as a result of early days was tremendous dangerous to get into VR. Now we’ve, sort of, handed this hump the place it’s nonetheless early days, there’s nonetheless a ton of alternative within the trade. However we’re, sort of, now on that precipice of, like, “are they actually gonna go away from utilizing their cell phones? Wouldn’t individuals slightly watch films and issues on their cell phones?” It’s like, properly, wait a minute. Fairly quickly it’s gonna be hindsight, the place they’re like, “oh, everybody has a really cheap headset the place they can’t solely fulfill all their leisure wants, however they’re gonna be capable of do all of the health stuff.”

So, thought that was a very essential level that got here to thoughts, as you’re saying this entire, “proper now, our cell app has extra customers, however VR, you understand, it’s selecting up.” It’s nonetheless a ton of alternative for builders and creators to have the ability to get into this.

Johannes Scholl: One of many main causes for us once we developed the CLOUD, and the cell app and that complete system was, we are attempting to reply three questions. As a result of let’s say, okay, it’s Covid and also you need to promote product to the net retailer, like, what’s wanted.

And we stated, we need to construct a full physique exercise gadget. So it must be full physique, which the ICAROS units, they offer [00:26:00] you core, they offer you shoulder, they offer you coordination. However for instance, arms or legs don’t actually play a serious position on the ICAROS gadget. So we stated, okay, it must be full physique.

Then the opposite factor was, it must be appropriate for all the household. So, if mommy buys it and she or he must justify, she will say, “hey, the children can use it, you should utilize it.” So it must be adaptable for particular person necessities. Then the opposite factor was, must be shipped in a single field through UPS. As a result of we’ll solely be capable of ship it via the net retailer.

Once more, the fourth one, and that was actually essential, was, we need to have a really low entry hurdle on the technological aspect. So we stated, realistically at present, three years in the past, like, what number of of our potential prospects do personal a headset? Not too many. What number of of those will purchase a headset, as a result of their want to get that exercise expertise with ICAROS is so sturdy. A few them. We’re promoting headsets rather a lot, not a giant deal. However what’s the gadget, what’s the know-how that all the potential prospects have already got? [00:27:00] That’s the cell gadget. So ultimately, that’s how we developed the system.

We sneak into the households of the individuals with out promoting them an excessive amount of additional tools. Nonetheless, we’re sturdy believers within the potential of VR, and particularly there the place digital actuality just isn’t a nice-to-have, however it might actually flip into a must have. And, I discussed remedy earlier. Additionally skilled sports activities.

With utilizing digital actuality, you’ll be able to actually make the exercises change into more practical. You may make a distinction in how the individuals react. If we speak to stroke sufferers, for instance, the immersion in digital actuality makes such a distinction for them, as a result of they, sort of, go away the true world and all of a sudden the psychological impact performs a giant position.

Or I can ask the identical particular person to lean to the best fifteen levels and maintain that place for a minute, and that particular person will inform me, ” take a look at me, I’m not in a position to do this.” And the identical particular person, [00:28:00] I’ll put the VR headset on and can ask to do this motion, as a result of the particular person doesn’t need to hit an impediment or they need to accumulate some factors, and all of a sudden voila. It really works.

And I present that particular person the video afterward and so they say, ” oh shit, that’s unbelievable.”

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Johannes Scholl: They, sort of, really feel themselves in a different way. It is also skilled athletes searching for these additional positive aspects. And so the cognitive facet and the psychological facet that you could add in quite simple methods simply by placing a headset on. Low price, out there all over the place.

I imply, that may change into an actual recreation changer. And I believe that the trade also needs to look into these advantages and make use of them as an alternative of simply copying what’s already there.

I’m curious, like, how all the VR trade will develop, and when will we see these headsets and the releases of massive corporations. I suppose all people’s curious.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s a terrific segue. You recognize what’s attention-grabbing is, I completely agree. For those who consider VR as only a display in your face, and it’s like, “what’s a giant deal? You recognize, like, I’d slightly simply have a display [00:29:00] some other place.” However while you really notice and see the research which have proven that, like, your mind treats it fully completely different. Everyone knows Thoughts Over Matter. And the Placebo Impact.

There’s many various issues that like you’ll be able to, like, virtually hack your mind to transcend your limitations. And simply, it’s an entire new world. After which as soon as individuals notice like, “whoa, it is a new paradigm for what’s doable in all these completely different areas, that makes it method higher.” You recognize, not simply, like, 5 p.c higher, however probably 10x higher.

Johannes Scholl: Precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s that psychological leap, I believe, that imaginative and prescient that when individuals get that, and that we and others are proving it out, that’s gonna assist to actually drive that residence. And I believe, to only sort of segue proper into that, at present’s VR health panorama, clearly with you and plenty of different nice corporations which might be constructing experiences and at-home and in-gym. With the know-how now we have at present, which is method higher than these early years, you understand, that we bear in mind seven years in the past. Nevertheless it’s nonetheless not fairly the place we wish, however what do you concentrate on the state-of-the-art health at present? And extra importantly, the place do you suppose it’s gonna go? {Hardware}, software program adoption for health and sports activities, extra particularly, within the [00:30:00] subsequent three to 5 years?

Johannes Scholl: It’s exhausting to inform the place it’s going, however my want for the place it must be going is that we focus onto the advantages and on the large distinction that digital actuality, the impression it might have. And the speedy impact on coaching, particularly the cognitive, psychological features. Anticipation, coordination, steadiness, like, full skillset that in any other case you’d perhaps solely practice while going snowboarding or taking part in tennis, and stuff like that.

Then making use of, actually, the group facet, the social facet. Being at residence, having a cool class with different individuals, irrespective of the place on the planet. I don’t know the place it’s going, however I’m certain that it’s going to not disappear.

I consider that the builders and the gamers within the trade, additionally the know-how producers, they need to additionally hyperlink and cooperate and inform one another the place stuff’s going. Know-how must help us as builders to make this imaginative and prescient flip right into a actuality.

If that’s taking place, then I see a terrific future for digital actuality train with all [00:31:00] these completely different sides and features.

Preston Lewis: What I believe the cool factor too is, I imply, we’re all doing this for lots of various causes, proper? As a result of now we have a imaginative and prescient, but additionally on the finish of the day, that is gonna actually positively impression individuals’s lives.

It’s the mission to have the ability to assist individuals, in Black Field’s case, assist them stage up their lives utilizing this immersive know-how, by creating these addictive health experiences, particularly the dependancy. I imply, it’s all the time been this sort of like damaging connotation, however we actually suppose that gamifying issues the best method can create wholesome addictions which might be gonna enable you to. Like we talked about originally of the podcast.

Johannes Scholl: A optimistic behavior.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, precisely. A optimistic behavior that folks follow and cling to that get all of them the opposite optimistic advantages of that. In order that being stated, sort of, segueing into what’s been essentially the most rewarding facet of constructing ICAROS?

Has it been a buyer testimonial? Possibly one thing you noticed within the medical discipline? Possibly it’s simply the pure pleasure of making a cool, revolutionary product? What’s been essentially the most rewarding facet?

Johannes Scholl: There’s many various rewarding ones, as you stated. The pure pleasure of [00:32:00] making a related, radically new revolutionary know-how. And being acknowledged as a related participant in that discipline, in our time alone is one thing that I consider, as a product developer and startup founder, is one thing that many individuals would perhaps dream of being in that place in some unspecified time in the future. So you need to be grateful for that alone. That’s rewarding within the first place, constructing one thing actually out of nowhere, and turning that imaginative and prescient right into a actuality. All in all, that’s crucial and most rewarding facet.

Nevertheless, for those who take a look at it extra carefully, it’s in fact the individuals utilizing the units. Particularly the sufferers bettering on the units, individuals altering their minds and altering their methods to stay and being extra energetic, dwelling extra wholesome way of life. And telling you this on Instagram. These days, a number of occasions I actually simply repost person generated content material, as a result of I see individuals at residence, working with our units, with [00:33:00] their household. And I didn’t ask them to put up a video of it, it’s simply they get pleasure from their exercise and so they get pleasure from figuring out with the techniques. That’s the second half that’s simply actually rewarding, and it reveals you that the know-how you’re working with, the merchandise you constructing, that they’re related.

Final however not least, in fact it’s cool to see a number of the items being put in in a few of these locations the place I might by no means dream of. It’s not a lot in regards to the individuals. It’s nice if celebrities use it, and stuff like that. However actually, like, having these amenities recognizing all the potential this know-how has, and utilizing our items, putting in them there. And utilizing them as, to not brag with it, however actually additionally as like, “hey, look what we bought, we bought this ICAROS software.” We’ve this one set up in Switzerland on the Purple Bull media world the place they are saying, “hey, this unit now we have right here, we can not change the tools, we can not change, we can not take your tools out right here.”

They’re simply utilizing it throughout, and over, and over, and over and each two years or so, you must go there and tighten all of the [00:34:00] screws and take care of the items, as a result of they’re used a lot. And I believe these are essentially the most rewarding features of all the journey.

Not a lot the awards. For the second, that’s additionally one thing you might be happy with, however actually, I imply, it’s the long-term success. And the long-term suggestions that basically retains you going and that motivates you additionally to take the subsequent steps. And that’s it for me, actually.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s simply this superb feeling typically while you’re like, “this was actually simply an concept in our heads.” Like, and it’s loopy that that’s doable as people, so we are able to do that working collectively. Nevertheless it simply this concept, which no matter that’s, you understand, in our brains and these neurons. And dealing collectively, after which rapidly there it’s, and then you definately get that suggestions that you simply dreamed of. Of like, “that was so enjoyable.” Or “the rehab was far more efficient.” Prefer it’s virtually bizarre. Nearly loopy that we are able to even do this.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, no. I imply, simply to piggyback on that as properly, I believe the opposite cool factor, particularly within the ICAROS case, is that, and I suppose additionally with the Black Field case, is that the medical trade is beginning to acknowledge this know-how as an actual legit software for rehabilitation, [00:35:00] in addition to the health trade for all the opposite stuff we talked about.

You talked about if a medical college or facility is utilizing it in your finish, meaning they’ve most likely gone via some fairly loopy rigorous testing. They’ve actually vet, I imply the medical trade has all of the compliance points and stuff like that, and so they actually vet the applied sciences that are available in.

So I believe it speaks volumes to the legitimacy of this know-how, of your know-how, the truth that they’re really utilizing that again and again of their amenities.

Johannes Scholl: Ultimately, actually it’s about, like, does it assist or not? That’s the easy query. If you converse with sufferers. I imply, it’s just like the enjoyable and all the pieces, that’s good to have, however does it assist me?

And once more, that’s the place I consider digital actuality already is a recreation changer. And there’s a number of research out there already on, Digital actuality, not solely with health, but additionally, like, going to the dentist and having the headset on, and like all of these results, all the pieces that’s happening in your mind in digital actuality that you should utilize positively.

That’s additionally my sturdy perception why digital actuality is not going to disappear, as a result of it already discovered its niches the place you understand it actually makes a [00:36:00] enormous distinction. You’ll be able to’t let go of it anymore. Now we are going to see the way it grows extra into different areas as properly by changing into extra inexpensive, easier to make use of, extra arms on, and on, and on and on.

Nevertheless it already has confirmed its effectiveness. So it’s a confirmed know-how now.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s exhausting for me to carry this one again, as a result of I hold eager about, like, the rehab. It’s like, you understand, you’re saying just like the particular person goes into rehab. And like, “I can’t transfer my arm this a lot.” After which, you understand, they’ve to maneuver outta the way in which to a hospital, after which they present they really can. I’m imagining, like, you understand, an older particular person in VR, they begin strolling. Pace is sluggish. However they’re on this good, stunning atmosphere. After which Cocaine Bear comes flying at them and so they need to run away. And it’s like, “look, see? I instructed you you can. Look what you probably did.” You see individuals freaking out. That may not be a good suggestion. However, like, yeah rapidly… “see how briskly you ran?” And so they’ll be like, “I’m by no means doing this once more.”

Preston Lewis: Now you make me wanna watch Cocaine Bear. I nonetheless haven’t seen it. That sounds superior.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fairly enjoyable.

Preston Lewis: Properly and to piggyback on that, as properly, with the Black Field stuff so far as the research. We’ve finished a number of research with UCLA, [00:37:00] college research. And, man, the outcomes that the individuals within the research have skilled are insane. Like, we did one the place it was three months of exercises, which was about twelve weeks of 3 times per week doing a Black Field exercise. And it proved that Black Field’s expertise in comparison with, like, the standard cable resistance machine coaching, which was “the management”, resulted in larger decreased physique fats, elevated lean physique mass, decrease resting coronary heart price, decrease systolic diastolic blood strain, elevated flexibility. Just about each, each metric you can have measured the Black Field VR exercise was higher than the standard cable resistance coaching. And that is all primarily based on college research, so we consider that is the way forward for health, because it sounds such as you do as properly. And the entire trade’s simply getting began.

Johannes Scholl: The trade ought to work collectively. The electronics producers, the software program builders. I imply, everyone knows particularly with sure prospects, how exhausting it may be to actually set up digital actuality tools at [00:38:00] some place after which get it working. Like, putting in is one half, however then have it being operated by the individuals on website who is likely to be, I don’t know, healthcare professionals, no matter. The better it turns into, the simpler the job can be for us. And in the end the extra sufferers, customers, will profit from it.

Preston Lewis: You and your crew have been on the forefront of innovation on this area. So, we wanna know, our viewers needs to know what’s subsequent for ICAROS? Do you’ve gotten any thrilling new upcoming developments or merchandise that you’ve within the pipeline?

Johannes Scholl: I discussed earlier that our focus actually is software program growth. So I can inform, like, inside this 12 months or so, you’ll not see any new loopy {hardware} from ICAROS.

We continuously convey loopy new {hardware}, however not for now. We’re actually specializing in each app and digital actuality software program growth. Build up the group, making the person person profile extra essential for the person person. Like this itch, to continuously, like, log in. These sort of results are essential to us.

After which, we’ll conduct a number of research in Germany with [00:39:00] hospitals and universities round decrease again ache. We simply launched a research with the College Clinic in Heidelberg. They’re working with post-Covid, long-Covid sufferers. Most of it’s actually about motivation and getting individuals into exercise once more through the use of digital actuality.

That can be very attention-grabbing to see the result of that research. After which, in fact, implementing all of those learnings into our software program, these individualized coaching packages will play a serious position. So, a number of stuff happening within the digital world at ICAROS proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: I simply wanna say, it’s an honor to have the ability to have you ever on the podcast. For those who would’ve instructed my fourteen 12 months previous self, after I was watching Lawnmower Man, that I might discover and meet the individual that really make this a actuality and I’m gonna get match from it. Like, that’s, I might’ve blown my fourteen 12 months previous thoughts.

Johannes Scholl: Thank Preston, Ryan, it’s our pleasure to be part of your podcast. And likewise following you, and your progress and course of all through the time, working with digital actuality and likewise having this worldwide connection [00:40:00] in Europe and the US, which I believe is a really cool factor. And it’s not a given, and you probably have a relation, it is advisable to work on a relation. And that’s cool. So once more, it’s my pleasure to contribute to this podcast at present a bit. Man, I stay up for our subsequent dialog.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Properly, that’s on a regular basis now we have. Thanks a lot, Johannes, for becoming a member of us and sharing your crew’s story, insights and keenness for creating the way forward for VR Health with our viewers. For any of you within the viewers, as typical, for those who’d prefer to get involved with the crew, we’ll put all the data into the present notes, so be sure you verify these out. Thanks once more.

Increase. Explosions. All proper. Let’s, uh, that was superior. Um, let’s do…

Ryan DeLuca: Are we imagined to dab now?

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to electronic mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You can too be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the subsequent massive factor that can [00:41:00] revolutionize the world of health.


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