VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4

Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Be part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.

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Episode 4 – Cix Liv

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that may revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR health club and convey a long time of expertise from creating among the largest health expertise firms on this planet.

They’re bringing collectively the very best and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. We have now a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us at this time, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.

Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.

Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you’re and your background.

Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual shortly. After I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.

And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting pc {hardware}, and I stored transport it again to a spot referred to as Metropolis of Business. I heard that identify and I used to be, like, “wow.” , like, Metropolis of Business, proper? I used to be simply so fucking uninterested in how chilly the Midwest was, and I might all the time joke with my pals that sometime I’m gonna get in a automotive, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that sooner or later, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Business, which is outdoors of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?

Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like residing in a fucking warehouse. Undoubtedly not like a heat starting to California. However really that’s after I began calling myself Cix. So, it’s not my delivery identify. My delivery identify is completely different. I believe lots of people, once they make large life choices, they generally need to change themselves and who they have been and all the things. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] identification.

However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in expertise, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that now we have up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app referred to as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was once you press your buddy’s identify and it might do a push notification and stated, “yo”. And that raised hundreds of thousands of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”

Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.

Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I would like be a part of that as a result of…

Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.

Preston Lewis: I like it was like Metropolis of Business. I may simply think about what you have been like envisioning was identical to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to indicate up at a warehouse is hilarious.

Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s referred to as Metropolis of Business, it’s the Industrial District. So undoubtedly not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that method.

Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the highway journey, and leaving all your folks behind and shifting to the Metropolis of Business. However, inform our viewers how you bought involved in VR. Uh, why’d you get involved in it? What first drew you to it?

Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco have been IT jobs. So, I used to be mainly fixing shit for individuals; whether or not it was firms or excessive internet value individuals. I fastened one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.

I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He most likely doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude establishing his fucking Wi-Fi, however you recognize, sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.

Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?

Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very completely different than quite a lot of tech individuals in San Francisco. Lots of tech individuals in San Francisco have been engaged on cell purposes, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They have been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} aspect, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.

So I had that distinctive perspective. I received into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I received entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I received the DK2 and I used to be making an attempt it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, however it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.

I attempted among the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be shifting my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually received into. However then I received entry to the Vive Pre, you recognize, the dev equipment earlier than the VIVE got here out. I received the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a Area Pirate Coach, and I used to be taking part in it in the lounge.

So after I moved to San Francisco, I used to be residing with fifty individuals on this co-living, type of hippie-ish factor the place like individuals would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of residing in San Francisco. They might prepare dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking individuals after I got here to San Francisco.

Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was really a spot

Cix Liv: Undoubtedly very humble beginnings after I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed Area Pirate Coach. And I keep in mind a second the place I used to be capturing out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my total life. I like to inform people who video video games raised me greater than my dad and mom did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna admire me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.

However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is considering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did one in all these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.

That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, you recognize? And it was just like the convergence of all the things that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your personal new identification, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.

That excellent connection of who I used to be. And that’s what received me into the house.

Ryan DeLuca: I believe all of us have that second, proper in VR, after all everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I really really feel like I used to be falling.”

And like, once you actually [00:07:00] notice that you simply really really feel such as you’re there. And I believe it makes whole sense that video video games all the time have been a controller or keypad the place you’re considering that you’re really in that world and pretending that you simply’re that character.

You’re clearly absolutely faraway from it on a flat display. And it’s the dream that we all the time wished. We all the time pretended we have been that factor after which unexpectedly VR , now you’re in there, such as you stated. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re not likely positive the place you’re at in actual house, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.

Preston Lewis: Area Pirate coach was wonderful for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless suppose they’ve among the greatest graphics and mechanics in there.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unbelievable. I believe the primary sport that may get the crown for the primary health sport in VR, I might say might be Audio Defend.

Audio Defend was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely liked. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case to start with of digital actuality.

You’re sporting this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] lively motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, you recognize?

Ryan DeLuca: Persons are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, in case you solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the best way, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And now we have the identical story, like, we heard him say that.

After which now after all he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.

Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s received the forearms and all the things’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, you recognize?

Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.

Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning firms within the XR house. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us a bit of bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you realized from that?

Cix Liv: , I used to be tremendous involved in VR, after which there was this co-working house in San Francisco referred to as Add, which it was an awesome place for individuals to come back collectively.

I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had quite a lot of constructive experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the crew. The man who authorised me to be a part of this co-living house was a man named Oz. Ouncesran all of the combined actuality stuff on the location.

And after I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display room and he was doing combined actuality the place he was placing individuals within the sport and exhibiting everyone outdoors of VR what it was wish to be in VR. And after I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many largest basic issues that we had in our house, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? When you see somebody in a headset they usually’re sitting down they usually’re identical to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? ? Um…

Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty % of the time, that was true.

Cix Liv: On your VR. I might say that was most likely true. Let’s be sincere. However you recognize, once we moved to love full physique monitoring, in case you have been to have a look at somebody taking part in Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?

You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this particular person tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then once you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed individuals the context of what was occurring, it went from dorky to chill.

And I’m a powerful believer that expertise shifts occur once you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, in case you take a look at the evolution of electrical automobiles, Elon Musk actually referred to as his line “attractive”. Proper? As a result of, electrical automobiles as much as that have been like good automobiles and stuff like that, the place everyone thought electrical automobiles have been fucking dorky. Proper?

And so one of many massive issues that I all the time take a look at on this house is, how can we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it probably the most dorky shit on this planet? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was capable of talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And in addition enable individuals a window into VR, so you would see what the particular person was doing in actual time.

And so, Ounceswas doing this. I used to be like, “that is wonderful.” [00:11:00] After which how can we create a product out of this? And in order that grew to become the massive query. Among the people who I used to reside with on this fifty particular person co-op had moved into their very own condominium. Their names have been AJ and Pierre.

So that they have been my two pals. I like went to them and I mainly co-oped their front room into an enormous combined actuality inexperienced display. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply received obsessive about it. I like to consider it type of like, you recognize, as children you’ll file your self in a cassette participant and fake you have been radio jockeys or one thing?

I really feel like we have been type of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display after which AJ went in there with a brilliant saiyan hat on, and there was this sport the place you would have mini weapons. It was referred to as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had a brilliant saiyan factor.

It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra immediately and how one can communicate to traders and no matter. And we received into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly nicely proper now. I believe they only raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what individuals are doing contained in the headset. And in case you see it even on a flat display, it will probably even actually be tough. We wrestle with that quite a lot of Black Field. Like how do you present individuals? We nonetheless do, how do you present individuals what you’re doing?

And we create some completely different type of inexperienced display sort of environments, however it’s simply so tough and such an enormous drawback that Liv with fixing, which remains to be an issue and folks nonetheless wrestle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has executed to, to assist with that.

Cix Liv: I want they might make like a one click on combined actuality companion with a digital camera firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…

Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out ultimately.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually admire you doing all through your profession to this point has been taking this platform method to constructing your initiatives and merchandise. And yeah, the entire trade has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I most likely enterprise to guess that Liv is possibly the primary piece of software program used for combined actuality movies. And I’d most likely say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies have been most likely made with Liv software program as nicely.

Black Field VR, once we first used your software program, we noticed individuals lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an enviornment” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, truthfully large due to you and your crew for doing that, as a result of I believe it’s been superior for the trade.

Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.

We have been working with somebody who’s a fireplace spinner, her identify was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some individuals say “viral” once they have like 1,000,000 views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout all the things. There was one video on Fb that hit 2 hundred million by itself. That degree of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We have been simply creating movies and it was often simply me, or simply some individuals I do know, and I undoubtedly amp it up, however, you recognize, males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.

So I had a buddy named Swan and she or he went in there and she or he was identical to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even considering a complete lot about it, we have been identical to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off a bit of bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I awakened and I regarded down my telephone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is occurring?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Sport Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and far and wide.

That they had taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, they usually had identical to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] client occasion of VR. Earlier than then we have been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll all the time do not forget that second. It was undoubtedly a mix of a bunch of issues. And you recognize, the largest studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the subsequent firms after, which is necessary for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to individuals why VR was fascinating. As a result of anytime that we had combined actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However once you had added physicality and folks have been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it might, it might carry out like 100 occasions higher.

The way in which that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re type of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so you must be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, you recognize, the nuances of your face, you must use physique language.

And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like once you watch a sport, you’re not taking a look at their face, you’re taking a look at their physique, proper? And so the largest studying from Liv that received me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit in regards to the content material if individuals weren’t lively, they only didn’t care. They have been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. , I don’t care.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s such an excellent level. Yeah. I imply, simply the best way you set it, the physicality. And other people like to observe individuals doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this excellent mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I believe all of us have been a bit of bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply in every single place. After which that’s once we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like knowledgeable [00:17:00] pals asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like sport with the lightsabers”, you recognize? And it’s like everyone knew about it.

Cix Liv: Yeah.

Preston Lewis: I believe Beat Saber owes you some royalties.

Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them so much with advertising within the early days. I believe that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with just a few songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it fascinating, after which there was a really giant modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand individuals. And that modding group made it, in order that they mainly took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter music you wished in there. And I believe realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to take care of its relevance.

After which the ultimate piece of that was that it grew to become the flagship for the Quest. I believe these have been the three massive, like, moments that you would say that related to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be sincere. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it grew to become the biggest VR discord on this planet of a whole bunch of 1000’s of individuals.

They really needed to begin kicking individuals out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Had been creating mods with like completely different swords and songs and no matter. And that received across the copyright concern the place most builders needed to license each single music, which will get extremely costly. So they’d this entire group basically making infinite content material.

After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so nicely to the Quest and, it didn’t have among the points that among the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port quite a lot of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.

So there have been quite a lot of builders who created actually wonderful experiences who had a very onerous time porting it all the way down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] massive issues that actually pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty % system penetration of all the VR market. It was on over fifty % of all headsets on this planet, which was…

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.

Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was the very best half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many alternative songs and maps, like countless quantity, proper? And you would discover any songs that you simply favored and all kinds of loopy stuff.

And naturally individuals would charge the very best ones. You’d study new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply realized about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by way of that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, you recognize, as a result of I used to be all the time planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, you recognize, they usually even made the 360 modes and stuff.

However, you recognize, it type of leads into the subsequent factor is, among the finest elements about Beat Saber being the flagship sport, that grew to become like actually the primary mainstream sport that launched individuals to VR, was the factor we all the time hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber sport. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I liked it. After which I spotted I’m exercising.” Like, it may have been another VR sport that wasn’t actually an lively sport that grew to become the primary massive one, however the truth that the primary massive one had such an train cardio element to it, was additionally actually good for exhibiting health as a strong method to make use of VR.

So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent massive factor, your subsequent firm.

Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to go away Liv for varied causes. One of many causes was, is the crew mainly grew to become European primarily based and, I had a tough time with the concept of like, shifting to the Czech Republic.

, I hadn’t began an organization considering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some choices to make sure that, like, my departure can be okay for the corporate, and AJ grew to become the CEO, which was, you recognize, my roommate method again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more instantly.

In hindsight, I most likely ought to have taken a bit of little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 2 hundred miles an hour to a different 2 hundred miles an hour, type of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working a bit of bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as changing into an enormous factor, and I used to be looking for a technique to work with him. And I’ll say this, we have been looking for a technique to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of all the things to love an Nth diploma.

Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart charge trackers which can be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to people who individuals are fucking exercising.” I used to be making an attempt to determine a technique to work with him. He didn’t need to co-found it with me.

He’s most likely a bit of mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t need to be a co-founder with me and he was so targeted on efficacy of all the things. And for me, having constructed a client firm earlier than, proving in any respect that individuals are doing one thing with the least friction doable is the way you construct a client firm, proper?

So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in direction of a headset that’s now not tethered. I believe health is gonna be one in all, if not the largest use case. Individuals would snort at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, individuals thought we have been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was making an attempt to show to people who VR is health and folks would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive.” , like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re petrified of what’s occurring. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was making an attempt to show to people who it was a factor.

I didn’t should be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, you recognize, how can we create a client product out of this? I began considering, okay nicely, let’s attempt to resolve this in a method that’s the least friction doable.

I’m quick forwarding a bit of bit right here.

So, one other particular person that actually believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the best way. I keep in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I stated, “hey, VR Health is gonna be an enormous factor.” They nearly fucking laughed me out of the room. They have been like, “what are you speaking about?”

And I believe that is primarily attributable to the truth that the best way Fb determines product worth relies off current metrics that they will go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is occurring, we must always do this too.” They’ve a really tough time with foresight, and I believe culturally that’s the largest drawback with Fb, is that they solely function on current information they usually don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.

And so, I had that have the place they nearly like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his identify was Dylan.

I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t should persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many largest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to individuals they usually’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”

So Dylan, I didn’t should persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we received into Enhance, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I believe Adam Draper favored me, and he, you recognize, like, if I’m gonna be actual, I believe that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a guess on you.” , a type of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I stated, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Enhance now, now we have a bit of bit of cash.”

So, we wished to create the least friction technique to get entangled on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this huge modding group and it type of skirted round a few of these completely different platform points that we’d have. Like, may we really combine into Beat Saber formally? In all probability not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it grew to become extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] mainly what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord desirous to train.

And in order that group that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so fascinating, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health house. It was players, quite a lot of them, tremendous unhealthy that have been exercising accidentally.

And it was nearly like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to really be match.” These have been the fellows that you simply’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa sort. That was our foremost demographic, proper? Was children who felt apathetic to even the concept of exercising.

And what it was, was a very good Malicious program that made individuals have the boldness that they really may begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] group in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can really train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely nicely. So then we created a Steam primarily based tracker that mainly, would take your motion information and estimate very rudimentary, you recognize, initially into what energy you have been burning. After which it developed right into a Quest app that you simply needed to aspect load. And we received a bit of bit extra fancy over time the place we have been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart charge primarily based off information that we had on coronary heart charge. However, the aim was mainly to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was type of the underlying aim of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely nicely. I believe we grew to become the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.

Preston Lewis: So one query I need to ask [00:27:00] is, simply feels like you’re very related to customers by way of these initiatives and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I believe is absolutely necessary for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, you recognize, individuals method it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, now we have a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”

Feels like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the other. You after all have the intestine feeling, however feels like you could have actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So possibly only a fast little transient hit on that, for our viewers. What would you suggest as individuals are constructing the product so far as realizing which course to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?

Cix Liv: You must have a suggestions loop together with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you would argue will not be an excellent factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single damaging evaluation, I might attain out to that particular person and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a damaging evaluation?”

They usually’d be like, “nicely, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t suppose it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the people who didn’t like our product to search out out why they didn’t like our product, as an alternative of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy individuals don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I suppose the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? Once you begin an organization, in case you don’t need to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, sincere to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s an excellent day. You guys know this, like, in case you wanna be a founder, you could have to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, a bit of little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared a complete lot about VR. And I gave this massive impassionate speech on why I consider digital actuality is gonna be the longer term.

And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I finished, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you stated VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a complete class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s type of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, quite a lot of occasions traders, they all the time speak about their future considering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However once you actually discuss to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or massive or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you stated, with like massive firms. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s nearly all massive firms. Like, they need information that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the fascinating factor about being laughed in your face is half the time you have to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the subsequent massive factor. And it’s all the time unattainable on the time, with out trying again looking back to know, which course it truly is gonna go.

Cix Liv: I believe the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is having the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?

As a result of typically the individuals who you suppose are assholes, are literally supplying you with good suggestions. And typically the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I believe that it’s actually onerous to tell apart the 2 typically, proper? Like, the place somebody is supplying you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s identical to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, you recognize? ?

Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.

Cix Liv: Like instantaneous…

Preston Lewis: That’s my child.

Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody stepping into and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “nicely, it’s my child?”

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s mistaken with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.

Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at footage, you’re like, “man, that child was type of [00:31:00] ugly.”

Preston Lewis: That particular person was proper. That particular person was proper.

Ryan DeLuca: I suppose, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, once we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply liked it a lot, after which once we first began getting suggestions, individuals have been saying so many damaging issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re mistaken” and like all this stuff. However then, you sleep on it and you consider, okay, we have to make these adjustments, and it’s quite a lot of onerous work to make adjustments, however then you definitely return and also you make these adjustments.

Then you definately look again at your child, on the time, and notice, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s all the time the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and all the time take a look at what you’re at the moment doing and say it was not practically pretty much as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.

Cix Liv: I believe listening to your customers is completely foundational, as a result of in case you discuss to your folks, they’re all the time gonna offer you a constructive spin, or often or typically you simply have a buddy that shits on all the things, proper? And so your folks are often actually not an excellent proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is nice. And household is even worse. , household’s both [00:32:00] all the time gonna be damaging or all the time gonna be constructive, relying on in the event that they suppose you’re earning money or not. Proper? So that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you’ll be able to continually be overly optimistic, since you each consider in the identical issues.

So that they’re often additionally not an excellent proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality often simply exists with the people who use your product. And getting them to really talk and inform you is, I believe probably the most invaluable type of suggestions in case you’re constructing a client firm. Attending to the people who like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”

Preston Lewis: A little bit observe as much as that’s, do you could have any small suggestions so far as the way you go about intelligently accumulating that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, establishing a Discord? Or do you could have particular issues that you simply do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with accumulating the suggestions?

Cix Liv: [00:33:00] When you talk with an individual, like, immediately, it’s type of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by way of 4Chan and speaking to somebody by way of their face. Like face-to-face, proper?

in case you’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on all the things. It’s nearly like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which once they discuss to you, they’re gonna be like, “nicely, I believe you need to, you recognize, enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I believe it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss once you’re talking to their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Normally the customers that you simply’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?

And also you’re often getting not quite a lot of the suggestions of the people who simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t need to inform you what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?

So for these, you’re gonna should, like, discover it anecdotally by way of like Fb posts or dangerous evaluations, and that is why I might all the time chase the dangerous evaluation individuals. When you’re constructing that client product to know what’s churning individuals from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, you recognize?

So I, I believe that getting these three views and possibly bucketing individuals in these three issues, is an effective technique to iterate in your product.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot great things to share with you all. So be part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR challenge and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the subsequent episode.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Have you learnt of anybody that needs to be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You can too be part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the subsequent massive factor that may revolutionize the world of health.


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